Best hardware for audio input

[Alpdriver]

Hi everyone!

I am looking for a way to record some demos on my iPad (mostly guitar) and I need some piece of hardware to connect microphones. After browsing this and some other forums I can't find the solution, which would seem hassle-free. With newer iOS versions some hardware might become useless and even dedicated iPad hardware can be problematic e.g. Alesis IO dock, as many users were complaining.

What I want:
to get a good quality audio signal into Multitrack from a microphone. I have an AT2020, which is useless without phantom power, and an Audix i5. I don't need simultaneous sources - for that I use Pro Tools. Just the input signal + monitoring.

What I have:
an original Mbox, which I couldn't get to work with my iPad 1.0 even with a powered usb hub, and an Mbox 2 mini.
+ the microphones listed above.

What I consider:
-ART USB Dual Pre interface - I noticed that most of the users were quite satisfied with it; however it's only USB 1.1 so I could use it only with iPad; on the plus side - it runs on batteries
-Behringer Xenyx 302USB mixer - but no phantom power; and there is only 1 japanese video on YT where somebody successfully got it to work with iPad; very cheap though
-a simple XLR-USB adapter - e.g. this (http://www.logilink.de/showproduct/UA0080.htm) - to connect my i5 - but no evidence whether it would work since a Blue Icicle doesn't
-and if all else fails - a Blue Snowball - just because it would be reliable in working with iOS /I hope/.

So - could anyone give me some advice?

[Thatbastarddon]

I have collected a few devices that work with my ipad2, and one that works surprisingly well with my iphone 4s as well.

One is the ART dual pre that you mention. Others have mentioned noise problems, and questioned shielding. I have been able to reproduce unwanted noise during long, overdub intensive, writing/learning sessions. Shutting down multitrack DAW, and restarting the app have reliably made that go away for me.
The shielding is indeed poor on the unit...I do not place my guitar/mic cables over, or under the dual pre, it stays nice and quiet(the same would apply to anything that can produce/enhance rf...like fx pedals, coiled copper wire etc...I try to keep these things at least 6 inches away, and have had good results).
I have enjoyed using the dual pre to:
mic a guitar amp with an audix i5
Direct record electric guitar, and bass
Record vocals with a shure sm7b

The only things needed in addition to the ART dual pre to record to multitrack DAW on ipad2:
Apple Camera connection usb adapter
Standard usb cable
9volt battery if you need phantom power(i have not had the need to try this)
Appropriate mic/insrtument cables
Head/earphones for monitoring.

Drawbacks are listed above...plus the dual pre only does 16bit resolution

The other device that i have become very happy, and surprised with, is the apogee jam.
Great for direct recording guitar, and bass.(it is what it was designed for of course)
Surprise(to me anyway)... with the addition of an old adapter i have had kicking around for years... One of these- http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2062443
the apogee jam has enough gain on tap to accept a dynamic mic(even my above mentioned shure sm7b) for vocals etc.
The jam comes with a 30pin dock cable, and a proprietary usb cable(for mac hook up).
Mono only, 24bit 44.1/48 capable, no batteries, no phantom power(you could look in to a stand alone box if needed- ART makes one that runs on 2 x 9volt batteries).

Hope this helps,

Don

[Alpdriver]

Thanks Don!

That's a lot of useful information

I have a few more questions - did you have any luck in recording with an i5 thru the Apogee Jam? And what about the quality from those recordings - were you satisfied? I'm also wondering - this xlr-to-jack adapter is very short and knowing my setup I would need a longer cable to put the microphone in front of an amp and the iPad on a table. Do you think the signal would be strong enough to record?

All in all I think that the Jam is a device, which is supposed to have a 100% compatibility with iOS since it was built with that in mind. With other hardware it may be hit or miss. I think I'll have to make up my mind on what I prefer. Both devices would get the job done in my case but the Dual Pre is a cheaper option, while the Jam a safer one, especially if I want to update iOS. Plus - it would also work with my iPhone 4. And both of them are only for this iOS purpose - the Dual Pre is only USB 1.0, so it wouldn't make sense to connect it to Cubase or Pro Tools (I have an Mbox 2 mini), while the Jam will work as long as Apple keeps on using the 30pin dock cable, which they ditch at some time (iPhone 5?).

[Thatbastarddon]

Thanks Don!

That's a lot of useful information

I have a few more questions - did you have any luck in recording with an i5 thru the Apogee Jam? And what about the quality from those recordings - were you satisfied? I'm also wondering - this xlr-to-jack adapter is very short and knowing my setup I would need a longer cable to put the microphone in front of an amp and the iPad on a table. Do you think the signal would be strong enough to record?

I5 to apogee jam?... I have not had the opportunity yet, but i can not imagine it would be a problem judging by the performance of the sm7b...the i5 does not require gain even near the level needed by the sm7b.
Recording quality?...excellent... I have not had too much time since the summer started, but i used it to learn Mad Season's "River of Deceit" on my iphone 4s. The end result stunned a few people. The guitars were all recorded direct(i have one version with ampkit free effecting the guitar tracks, and one without), drums programed(poorly) in about 20 minutes on my ipad2(e-mailed to phone), and vocals recorded with the sm7b. Satisfied?... Yes.
Xlr-to-jack adapter...short?... I plug the xlr end of the jack in to a six foot cable regularly, i'm sure you gould go longer.(i dont think i would try it using my 100foot stage snake ) i couldn't imagine a problem running up to 25 feet.

All in all I think that the Jam is a device, which is supposed to have a 100% compatibility with iOS since it was built with that in mind. With other hardware it may be hit or miss. I think I'll have to make up my mind on what I prefer. Both devices would get the job done in my case but the Dual Pre is a cheaper option, while the Jam a safer one, especially if I want to update iOS. Plus - it would also work with my iPhone 4. And both of them are only for this iOS purpose - the Dual Pre is only USB 1.0, so it wouldn't make sense to connect it to Cubase or Pro Tools (I have an Mbox 2 mini), while the Jam will work as long as Apple keeps on using the 30pin dock cable, which they ditch at some time (iPhone 5?).

I bought the ART first to use with my ipad...good enough to get the job done. I'm happy with it. It's portable, efficient, and low hassle(no usb hub needed, and doesn't suck my batteries dry too quickly).
I purchased my first iphone(the 4s) last fall, and wanted something to use with it "and" the ipad. First i ordered a line6 mobile in...DOA ...then i did some reading on the jam, and "score!!!".
The only things about the jam that are a challenge so far- setting the gain level is touchy...a dial on the side of the unit...best to be conservative.
Im guessing, you could use one of your small pre's(if either one has an analog line out) to run your phantom powered mic...if you have an inline attenuator to knock the line level out down close to mic level...there is some stuff to be read up on the apogee jam about this...they say it's possible if done carefully, and sensably.
no headphone out- the headphone out on the ios device is used...i have had no problems with latency yet.

I am no stranger to recording, and no expert either. I run an Akai DPS24, and a computer DAW set up running Reaper. I have the ability to record up to 24 tracks live, at 24bit 44.1/48, and have been doing so for a few years now. I originally bought my ipad to replace a mackie mcu that took up too much desk space(and of course to f around with). When i found multitrack daw, i saw the window open to replace my portable recorder with something infinately more cool. I have since been sucked in completely, and have had a great time, and have had some good experiences so far.

Hope this helps you out,

Don

[Alpdriver]

And what about the Tascam iU2? Did you have a chance to try it out? I'm seeing mixed opinions on that, but maybe it would be worth a try?

Another thing - I'm also looking for a way to connect iPad with ProTools via the Mbox 2 - I'd like to use the synth apps as live instruments. Of course I can just take the headphone output but I think a digital output would give me better quality. I've seen some adapters, which I could connect like this: dock->stereo TRS->mono TRS->TRS-to-jack adapter and from that to the 2 1/4 mono inputs in Mbox. But maybe there is a more clever way?
Any hope of syncing an iPad app to the metronome in ProTools e.g. via wifi?

[Thatbastarddon]

And what about the Tascam iU2? Did you have a chance to try it out? I'm seeing mixed opinions on that, but maybe it would be worth a try?

After my experience with the line6 mobile in, and scanning through the amazon reviews, i decided to not try the iU2.
My desires for use at this juncture:
Portable, portable, portable...light footprint...not much else needed to be functional. No need for external power(except on board batteries). The joke i made to one of the people that was impressed by the quality of the recordings i mentioned previously was, "all of the recording gear used to make the piece you just heard fit in to the coffee mug i used that day, and it was done in the recliner in my livingroom in 2 hours, using nothing that was plugged in to the wall."
I personally prefer to not use a usb hub(although i do have one that works with the ipad).
Items that are subject to abuse, wear, and tear should be easily replaceable.(the cable to connect the apogee jam is proprietary, but replaceable...the iU2 is hard wired)

Another thing - I'm also looking for a way to connect iPad with ProTools via the Mbox 2 - I'd like to use the synth apps as live instruments. Of course I can just take the headphone output but I think a digital output would give me better quality. I've seen some adapters, which I could connect like this: dock->stereo TRS->mono TRS->TRS-to-jack adapter and from that to the 2 1/4 mono inputs in Mbox. But maybe there is a more clever way?
Any hope of syncing an iPad app to the metronome in ProTools e.g. via wifi?

Well, that opens a whole new can-o-worms. I am not incredibly well versed in midi implementation in ios. I know that a lot of apps use "core midi". If i do use anything that dives in to the synth realm, i tend to try and stay in the box, or treat it like a stand alone synth unit. If this is the direction that you want to take perhaps you should look in to an interface like the lexicon omega(on the inexpensive end), or the rme fireface UCX(on the not so inexpensive end). Both units have excellent I/O options...midi in/out, digital in/out etc...etc.
If i were looking for a new DAW interface, these days, for my main room rig, i would look long and hard at the RME.(for it's potential to pull high quality double duty...WHAT A KILLER MOBILE RIG!!! That would be...a 64Gb ipad, multitrack DAW, and the UCX!!! )
If i were looking to see if i liked the workflow between IOS, and my existing computer DAW in regards to synths/drums etc... I would probably do some reading on the lexicon omega(at $150ish)

So, to answer the "clever way?" question...stay digital, if possible...avoid an unnecessary D/A...A/D conversion.
Midi sync over wifi? I am not that familliar...just with control surface implementation(a little different).

Don

[Anorton]

Don,
Thanks so much for the tip about the Apogee jam as a vocal interface with dynamic mics. I'm going to pick up one of those adapters from Radio Shack. The SM7B is a low output mic, right? If the Jam can provide a strong signal with the SM7B, it should be fine with an SM58, right?

Artie

[Thatbastarddon]

Don,
Thanks so much for the tip about the Apogee jam as a vocal interface with dynamic mics. I'm going to pick up one of those adapters from Radio Shack. The SM7B is a low output mic, right? If the Jam can provide a strong signal with the SM7B, it should be fine with an SM58, right?

Artie

I would not anticipate any problem... Other than getting used to the touchy level setting(dial).
The shure sm7b is a notoriously gain hungry mic. The masses all say you need 60-65db of gain to run.
I am a loudmouth singer, i seem to get by with around 45db.

Don

[Erik dP]

The Behinger USB mixer 302 has phantom power of 15 V always on. Could work with AT 2020.

Apogee One has guitar/instrument in + mic input with optional 48V phantom. NEEDS USB HUB + GARAGEBAND FOR INPUT SELECTION.

Someone on this forum uses Mackie Blackjack which I never found in any store. NEEDS USB HUB.

I was looking for the Blackjack but the Apogee One works for me . Small and has a. built in mic.

[Alpdriver]

I see that the best piece of hardware for me at this point is the Apogee Jam. At least just to get it going and start recording on the go.

I think I'll have to put more thought into the idea of using the iPad as a physical synth for Pro Tools This Lexicon Omega seems fine, but is not really a mobile device and I'm really fed up with carrying those Mboxes around - that's why I want to record to my iPad


And... I have my answer regarding the Xenyx mixer and its compatibility with iPad:

http://www.socialshowandtell.com/review ... 02usbmixer